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Shinsan
Nov 21, 2007, 08:49
I was reading the cultural thing and I saw that usually Husband and Wife in Japan don't even like eachother, they just marry for children and after 10 years of marriage they can screw around with anybody they want? Is this true?

Teenage Females can prostitute legally?

I love Japan and all, Hell, You know about me if you read my other topic.. I love Nihon. Anyway, Is this true, I mean, I don't want to marry someone if I don't like them and I certainly don't want my wife screwing around with everyone.

Mars Man
Nov 21, 2007, 10:39
As a general overall pattern, to the far greater degree, this is not true. Don't worry about it at all!

Shinsan
Nov 21, 2007, 10:50
Alright. I hope it's not. I want to date someone if I love/want them. I want to love my wife. I dont just want children, I want someone to love. I also don't want my teenage girl prostituting. Thanks, Mars Mansan!

scorpion da black
Nov 22, 2007, 06:09
shinsan
if what you said is true, then i am disappointed with my favorite people
i hope it ain't

Mars Man
Nov 22, 2007, 10:20
shinsan
if what you said is true, then i am disappointed with my favorite people
i hope it ain't

Please do make sure to read all the posts made, carefully. The gossip that Shinsan had heard is not true !!!

Shinsan
Nov 23, 2007, 02:31
I hope it's not. I LOVE the Japanese. They're awesome. I read it under the Culture section on this site under Marriages or something. It probably isn't true.

Anyhow, Everyone have a wonderful day, and if you're in America, Have a Happy Thanksgiving!:wave::wave::-)

SushiShin
Nov 23, 2007, 05:09
Well you may be happy, this ain't true, there are 1000000... gossip about Japan and his people and his habits.

For example:
*they say that most girls turning lesbian? yeah right in the A-vids maybe
(_ _')

*they say that japanese people have little penises then other people? okay this is sometimes true, but not always

....

There are endless rumours but don't believe them they ain't true, believe me, i am japanese and i can state that.

maushan3
Nov 23, 2007, 11:10
*they say that most girls turning lesbian? yeah right in the A-vids maybe (_ _')
Not only in Japanese, but in any other culture's AV's.

*they say that japanese people have little penises then other people? okay this is sometimes true, but not always....
There are studies about this and Asian's are IN GENERAL, well, you know... This, I think, cannot be classified as a rumor.

Mauricio

Shinsan
Nov 23, 2007, 11:14
So none of this is true? I read it off the site.

Mike Cash
Nov 23, 2007, 12:26
It must be true....I read it on the internet.

Word of the day: "Circumspect"

MadamePapillon
Nov 23, 2007, 13:29
This is a very confused thread. XD I think it's safe to say that as with most rumours there is some truth but (with the teenage prostitution) it's in the minority rather than the majority.

tokapi
Nov 23, 2007, 13:39
I certainly don't want my wife screwing around with everyone.



I've read some unconfirmed online postings & hearsays suggesting Japanese women nowadays lack chastity,I think they're in the minority though.

Japanese are open about sexuality.:blush:

Case in point,I was reading a Japanese language non-porn manga @ Yuki restaurant while having lunch there yesterday.One naked female character in frontal nudity with exposed " pubic " hair.:bluush:

Shinsan
Nov 23, 2007, 14:39
Lol. It's most likely not true, but it was on this site so I was a little curious.

SushiShin
Nov 24, 2007, 04:40
Not only in Japanese, but in any other culture's AV's.
There are studies about this and Asian's are IN GENERAL, well, you know... This, I think, cannot be classified as a rumor.
Mauricio

So you say i have a small one too? Because you said (Asian's in General) and this includes me since i'm Asian (Japanese) too (-_-')
If you say A you have to say B too:okashii:

MadamePapillon
Nov 24, 2007, 10:16
So you say i have a small one too? Because you said (Asian's in General) and this includes me since i'm Asian (Japanese) too (-_-')
If you say A you have to say B too:okashii:

Don't take offence to that. It's like saying that black guys are bigger in general...it's true, maybe not for all but it is a fact that the general population is bigger. It all comes down to genetics. It may offend some people but you can't argue with the truth.

But, for the sake of making you feel better...

Jewish people tend to have bigger noses, Amerindians are more likely to gain weight, African people tend to have bigger butts, Indian people often have hooked noses, S. American people are usually short, and Japanese people seem to have bigger than normal heads....it's true. I defy anyone to be offended by the truth. It's all genetics, some we like, some we don't.

tokapi
Nov 24, 2007, 10:39
Japanese people seem to have bigger than normal heads....



Nah ... it's those Koreans fit this description because of dominant Mongol genes.:wave:

Chi65
Nov 24, 2007, 10:48
Since when is size really important?

By the way, I know tall and big germans with, ahem, with for sure smaller ones (not heads, tz,tz) than most japanese. And even that did not degrade them, they were fine humans.

It depends, and let me tell you, if you are after a feeling, the finer things in life are often even better.;-)

MadamePapillon
Nov 24, 2007, 10:49
Nah ... it's those Koreans fit this description because of dominate Mongol genes.:wave:

Both actually...but I think it's really accentuated by the way they cut/style their hair. Mostly in the guys they really go for the big, poofy anime-like hair...bleached orange of all colors :relief: But that's just here in Vancouver (or Little Asia as I like to call it) not sure how it is over in Japan.

tokapi
Nov 24, 2007, 11:02
it's really accentuated by the way they cut/style their hair. Mostly in the guys they really go for the big, poofy anime-like hair... :relief:



Ok ... now we're on the same page:blush:

Mars Man
Nov 24, 2007, 11:03
Now let me tell you folks, I live in Japan, and, uh. . . my size is hard to come by !! REALLY ! I didn't read it on no site, nor did I just hear about it. . .





I mean, I went to many shoe stores, and size 29.5 just aint't nowhere to be found, almost...hee, hee, hee.....sorry, the devil made me do it !!

Chris K
Nov 24, 2007, 18:25
I have an English friend who asks me to bring condoms over when I go because the local ones 'choke the little fellow'.
Draw your own conclusions.

TokyoJuliet
Nov 24, 2007, 22:10
I was reading the cultural thing and I saw that usually Husband and Wife in Japan don't even like eachother, they just marry for children and after 10 years of marriage they can screw around with anybody they want? Is this true?
Yes, there are many people who don't marry someone they love. Just look up the term "omiai kekkon"(arranged marriage).
But that they screw around with anybody they want after 10 years? Never heard that it actually happens after 10 years, but it's quite usual that husbands cheat on their wife. (But of course there are also wifes that cheat on their husband or work in cabaret clubs/go to host clubs)
Teenage Females can prostitute legally?

I don't know if it's legal but i think this happens quite often. At the age of 16 I was in Japan as an exchange student and there were men who started to talk to me offering me money or brand goods. That was pretty shocking...
I also often saw really young girls walking around with old men (I really believe that it was enkou).

scorpion da black
Nov 25, 2007, 05:12
hahaha
this is nasty...
people arguing about size and stuff... well let me show off
hahahaha
i am Arabian and half Turkish ...
just imagine how it is like...
as a matter of fact it is more embarrassing to have a big one than to have a small one.
i have been in many situations where i had to run for cover (^_^')...erections are not fun in public. :blush: :blush: :blush:

:giggle: :giggle: :giggle:

Derfel
Nov 25, 2007, 05:34
Why do male people talk about each others penises? I mean why the weiner war?
First, they're rumors, second, since when are men interested about someone else's willy? Third, please tell me you're not going to start telling nasty stories regarding male genitalia sizes.
But one thing is certain, old men surely have it nice over there. Want to be a Japanese citizen when I retire lol... Sorry, just a joke, don't take it seriously.

SushiShin
Nov 25, 2007, 07:34
Okay....:o
The only thing i wanted to hear is from Mauricio to take back his words, because he thinks i have a small size of 'you know what'.
I must admit pure japanese people have maybe a small one.
But mixture's? Mulatte's? no they've a big one.
Thrust me, im telling the truth.

tokapi
Nov 25, 2007, 08:10
Okay....:o

I must admit pure Japanese people have maybe a small one.



No need for anyone to dispute this fact,photos of naked J males absolutely provide iron-clad proof :blush:

SushiShin
Nov 25, 2007, 08:11
I'm not saying they all have small ones.
Let's get back to topic shall we?:souka:

pipokun
Nov 25, 2007, 08:13
Why do male people talk about each others penises?

Existentialism
...
Existentialism is the philosophical movement positing that individual human beings create the meaning and essence of their lives as persons.

It is the meaning of our, male, lives, or we have nothing to be proud of.
Or this site does not have a proper category to discuss it, so there are similar threads everywhere such as "Japanese women are lesbians?".

A massage parler for women in Fukuoka was closed after the short 8 month history this year, though many media covered it a lot.
If you have an entrepreneurial one, it might be a good idea to start your own business here.

MadamePapillon
Nov 25, 2007, 08:51
:blush: It's funny. Mention the words 'small' and 'penis' in the same sentence and watch the hoarde decend. A flock of angry size enthusiasts.

It is so true, the male ego is a fragile place, one off-hand remark and you have the proverbial mob knocking at your door. :relief: To say nothing of all the barely disguised phallic imagery everywhere.

I don't know what sort of insecurity drives men to make giant monuments to their penises but it's time to take a step back, look downwards and tell that poor little guy 'I love you for you'. That would probably make it feel much better...and then you can all dim the lights and let the healing begin.

*insert bad 70s porno music*

Mike Cash
Nov 25, 2007, 09:06
I don't know what sort of insecurity drives men to make giant monuments to their penises but it's time to take a step back, look downwards and tell that poor little guy 'I love you for you'. That would probably make it feel much better...and then you can all dim the lights and let the healing begin.
*insert bad 70s porno music*

Yes, maybe someone should write The Penis Monologue.

It's hilarious watching the females here act as though they aren't loaded with complexes and don't discuss their anatomy.

Mars Man
Nov 25, 2007, 09:38
In looking over this in as careful, and academically precise a method as I know how, I have come to the conclusion that there is very little on this thread which is different from most of what's on this thread.

Of course the OP may not be being served, but then, that OP, of course, is a part of that most, within itself ! could we really say that there had been a topic here? Can we say that this thread has remained related to cultural differences between Japan and the rest of the 'other' cultures?

I propose, people, that further posting...we have had our fun, now...including, of course me...be along the lines of differences, if there are any, in Japanese culture (which in ways, may not mean 'social Japan today') and other cultures.

Thank you all for your help in this regards. (If any are interested, the Chit Chat & Misc. sub-forum has place for anatomy discussions/fun threads)

Derfel
Nov 25, 2007, 18:12
Okay now listen, why don!t you continue this in PM? I mean, this isn`t the chit chat subforum, so please. And the other thing is, why the hell are you arguing over such a mundane thing?

bakaKanadajin
Nov 26, 2007, 01:56
I saw the penis war coming when I read post #7 last week. I didn't reply at the time, and since it's not on my topic list I forgot about this thread. I come back now and sure enough, this thread has deteriorated into a penis-fest. Buahahaha so funny.

My male-status required 2 cents: as long as you're not freakishly under/over-sized everything's going to be alright. 'Big', 'small', it's all relative. Most people would classify themselves a certain way but most of these same people seem to forget that first they all fall into one big family known as 'average'. By the way no girl wants to be turned into a wind tunnel either, so I'd say the people on the fringes, the way too big and the way too small people, are both the unlucky ones.

Back on topic, there's another thread floating around here that starts by saying 'I heard Japanese people pee in the streets' or something like that.

Seriously, where do these threads come from? The Japanese do everything we do here in the West, including cheat on their husbands and wives. Is it so surprising that this could happen in Japan, that just like the Western world some couples choose to stay together for the sake of their children but lead private lives on the side? This to me bears no relevance to any discussion on Japanese culture specifically unless you were to find me some example of how the Japanese have clearly demonstrated that they have a unique and innovative way of approaching the situation that's on par with panty vending machines and self-parking vehicles.

ArmandV
Nov 26, 2007, 02:41
Didn't a dear "Uncle" refer to Japanese willies as "rice sticks" sometime back when we were hit by some troll(s)?

I think Abe Lincoln said it best (but he was referring to legs): "As long as they reach the floor to your body, they're the right size." (Something like that.)

Circumspect. No, that's not something that happens at a briss.

Taiko666
Nov 26, 2007, 10:39
With apologies to Mars Man... I've wondered about this for a long time, and I nearly mentioned it in my "Things I'm still looking for in Japan" thread... The thing is, the largest size Japanese condom boldy proclaims its 38mm diameter on the packet. Attempting to wear it is an eye-watering experience. In constrast, in Europe the standard diameter is 54mm. Therefore, in my quarterly 'Red Cross' parcel from the UK I receive an adequate supply.

kireikoori
Nov 26, 2007, 12:33
No need for anyone to dispute this fact,photos of naked J males absolutely provide iron-clad proof :blush:
hmmm? Most looked like the average six inch to me.

lol pen0r. How the heck did we get onto this topic.
Girth > Length
Skill/Effort > Size

lol, sex

Don't take offence to that. It's like saying that black guys are bigger in general...it's true, maybe not for all but it is a fact that the general population is bigger. It all comes down to genetics. It may offend some people but you can't argue with the truth.
But, for the sake of making you feel better...
Jewish people tend to have bigger noses, Amerindians are more likely to gain weight, African people tend to have bigger butts, Indian people often have hooked noses, S. American people are usually short, and Japanese people seem to have bigger than normal heads....it's true. I defy anyone to be offended by the truth. It's all genetics, some we like, some we don't.
For some reason I have a hard time picturing this bigger head thing. Pictures examples please.

I was reading the cultural thing and I saw that usually Husband and Wife in Japan don't even like eachother, they just marry for children and after 10 years of marriage they can screw around with anybody they want? Is this true?

I love Japan and all, Hell, You know about me if you read my other topic.. I love Nihon. Anyway, Is this true, I mean, I don't want to marry someone if I don't like them..
I remember people telling me this as well. Kinda Irks me.
I do hope Mars Man is right about this not being true. ;_;
So none of this is true? I read it off the site.
What site?

tokapi
Nov 26, 2007, 12:40
The thing is, the largest size Japanese condom boldy proclaims its 38mm diameter on the packet.



U must be kidding,that's barely 1.5 inches :blush:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/length_common.htm .... :bluush:

MadamePapillon
Nov 26, 2007, 13:18
For some reason I have a hard time picturing this bigger head thing. Pictures examples please.

http://flickr.com/photos/manganite/1809023433/in/set-72057594078908718
http://flickr.com/photos/manganite/1946935779/in/set-72057594078908718
http://flickr.com/photos/manganite/192502593/in/set-72057594078908718/

A few pics from the same website. Sorry I couldn't get more examples, or more male examples, but you get the idea.

Mars Man
Nov 26, 2007, 13:49
OK...since it could well be said that more of the thread boarders WaiWai material, I have moved it here, so...carry on.

Yes, from my experience with the condoms here, perhaps many non-asain have to order larger ones than the normal over the counter ones.

Of course the average female organ will be about at a matching size for the male in any physically defineable ethnic group. Regarding the size of the cranium in comparsion to body proportions, it's new to me, but I can see it.

pipokun
Nov 26, 2007, 19:00
The typical bigger head here (http://bb.watch.impress.co.jp/static/present/2003/07/exc01.jpg)

bakaKanadajin
Nov 26, 2007, 22:43
U must be kidding,that's barely 1.5 inches :blush:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/length_common.htm .... :bluush:

They should send some of their Japanese condoms to Germany and India:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6161691.stm

http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/000820.html

MadamePapillon
Nov 27, 2007, 02:27
They should send some of their Japanese condoms to Germany and India:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6161691.stm

http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/000820.html


What's that saying? It's not the size of the boat that matters but the motion of the ocean :relief: Something like that

Skullcrushergurl
Nov 27, 2007, 02:34
I was kinna liking the penis debate.....not to be disgusting butI'd like to know the facts. There is a big stereotype abouter...um it and that's why so many women don't go for asian guys. I for one don't care about the size.
Excuse me for being off topic-onegai shimasu!:gomen:

doinkies
Nov 27, 2007, 02:53
I remember people telling me this as well. Kinda Irks me.
I do hope Mars Man is right about this not being true. ;_;

I suggest reading this post from an older poster:

http://www.jref.com/forum/showpost.php?p=234590&postcount=5

I think it's quite insightful on the subject of marriage in Japan. Basically, while there are doinks out there, not all married couples are like them.

kireikoori
Nov 27, 2007, 13:55
omg that was an amazing post. Thanks for showing it to me. I totally agree. It's weird how I find so many people who make blanket statements about the whole of Japan, sometimes polar opposites depending on who you ask. It's weird and creepy.

Whether it's negative or positive things being said, I can't put into words how unsettling it is how people talk about Japanese people like they're not individuals. o.0

MadamePapillon, I still don't get that big head thing you were talking about. o.o

MadamePapillon
Nov 27, 2007, 16:48
Whether it's negative or positive things being said, I can't put into words how unsettling it is how people talk about Japanese people like they're not individuals. o.0

Not so unsettling when you realize how many people overseas do the same thing to Americans alone. How many times have you heard people saying Americans are all fat and lazy, or that all they eat is hamburgers (and for us Candians, that we all say 'Eh' at the end of every sentence).

We're all subject to generalizations, Japan isn't any different in that respect. It kind of baffles me though how some people can take such an offence to Japan/japanese people being generalized or stereotyped when it happens to us all the time and we manage to shrug it off and go on with our lives, no worse for wear.

MadamePapillon
Nov 27, 2007, 17:01
I was kinna liking the penis debate.....not to be disgusting butI'd like to know the facts. There is a big stereotype abouter...um it and that's why so many women don't go for asian guys. I for one don't care about the size.
Excuse me for being off topic-onegai shimasu!:gomen:

Actually, I think it's really because (and I'm sorry if I offend anyone by saying this) japanese, and asian men in general, are often viewed as kind of sissy next to western, or african or spanish men.

I mean, all you have to do is look at the j-rockers to see why this is. Thin, boyish men that are ever more blurring the gender line, and this is the sort of image many average japanese guys are looking to emulate. While it may be attractive in Japan, for many women here it is a MAJOR turn off. Most women don't want a guy that is weaker or more feminine than her.

Once again, sorry if I offended anyone...blame the j-rockers. :relief:

kireikoori
Nov 27, 2007, 17:06
Not so unsettling when you realize how many people overseas do the same thing to Americans alone. How many times have you heard people saying Americans are all fat and lazy, or that all they eat is hamburgers (and for us Candians, that we all say 'Eh' at the end of every sentence).
We're all subject to generalizations, Japan isn't any different in that respect. It kind of baffles me though how some people can take such an offence to Japan/japanese people being generalized or stereotyped when it happens to us all the time and we manage to shrug it off and go on with our lives, no worse for wear.
Hmmm....another well made point. o_o

Usually when people say things like "Americans are fat" I figure they're joking. I mean were have larger statistic of overweight people, but certainly not all are fat. I figure it's just really a joke in bad taste. It's always baffled me why people always want to put a country into a box. I mean I understand it's necessary to make some comments on general cultural leanings, but people go too far.

And when people generalize Japan, they seem to do it seriously. For this reason people like OP take it seriously. Saying, "lol fat stupid Christian Americans" is equivalent to "oh lol those crazy Japanese are up to it again". Maybe it's just me, but the generalizing of Japanese seems to be worse.
Actually, I think it's really because (and I'm sorry if I offend anyone by saying this) japanese, and asian men in general, are often viewed as kind of sissy next to western, or african or spanish men.
I mean, all you have to do is look at the j-rockers to see why this is. Thin, boyish men that are ever more blurring the gender line, and this is the sort of image many average japanese guys are looking to emulate. While it may be attractive in Japan, for many women here it is a MAJOR turn off. Most women don't want a guy that is weaker or more feminine than her.
Once again, sorry if I offended anyone...blame the j-rockers. :relief:
Hmm...that's a funny statement considering Visual Kei has more fangirls than any other form of Japanese entertainment(well...except for anime...but that applies to both genders). And by fangirls I mean people who are just dying to get into their pants.

MadamePapillon
Nov 27, 2007, 18:01
Maybe it's just me, but the generalizing of Japanese seems to be worse

I think it's because Japan is a very closed society and not many outsiders get to truly know the japanese people and what they are really like because they always hold themselves at a distance. Even when they come to live in a country like Canada many choose to remain inside their closed pocket societys and only truly interact with people like themselves.
In a way they really did it to themselves. When you close a veil over yourself and your society you instantly become open to speculation and assumptions because people are trying to make sense of the mystery.
As misguided as many of these comments and question may be it comes from a genuine interest and desire to learn. Unfortunately Japan is still very much a 'members only' sort of place, until they open up a bit more the ignorance and questions will continue.

kireikoori
Nov 27, 2007, 18:38
You're right, Japan is a very distant society. I think that's a large part of what draws so many people to it. The distance makes it mysterious.

Why does Japan do this, are they really so elitist and bigoted? I mean Japan has it's nationalism, but surely they aren't that much more so than any other country?

I agree that there's a veil there. But I'm not sure we're on the same page. There's different types of distance. The simple fact I couldn't hardly get my hands on any Japanese media outside of anime until the internet. The fact there aren't many Japanese here in America, and are far overshadowed by other ethnic groups, like say, Chinese, is a kind of distance.

I actually got to live with a Japanese family for a while. And we became really close. So close that they told me to treat them as family. It was nice to see that sort of distant feeling go away for a while. The time I spent in Japan really made me feel like the distance thing was just my prejudgment of Japan. That I was just stereotyping Japan without reason since I had never been there previously. That this distance wasn't all I had made it out to be.

If my assumptions about Japan being a distant, elitist, troubled escapist society where the kids are forced to study too hard and work too many hours and everybody is miserable, when I came back from Japan everyone on the internet says worse things about Japan than were on my mind already. So much that I almost forget sometimes that my experience wasn't the case. Boy did this sort of thing sure make me nervous when I was in Japan though.

Please, explain deeper as to what you mean by "closed" and "distant". And even though I say this, I feel like this is one of the first japanforum conversations I've ever been truly able to relate to. You're bring up a side of the whole thing that's in my mind but nobody ever seems to say and I don't know why that is.

Taiko666
Nov 28, 2007, 10:47
kireikoori- I think the answer to your questions has been written up many times much better than I could ever manage. But it seems social interaction in Japan is always based on in-group / out-group. One is more polite to people in your out-group, but more open with people in your in-group.

On a worldwide level, Japan is the in-group, everyone else is the out-group. When you stayed with your family, you were a guest to be honoured and looked after (out-group) and eventually became very close and (almost) in-group.

I am in the in-group of my true Japanese friends. To all other Japanese, I'm very much out-group, being a stranger and a foreigner

I think much of the xenophobia seen in Japan comes from Japanese not wanting foreigners to join their Japan in-group.

There, that's enough in/out grouping for the time being!

tokapi
Nov 28, 2007, 11:39
I think much of the xenophobia seen in Japan comes from Japanese not wanting foreigners to join their Japan in-group.



Japanese culture has entrenched clannishness:wave:

Japanese are polite & humble in their social interactions,typically would keep you at a distance.


Here is transcript of a brief conversation with Japanese language exchange partner Naoko on MSN.

( tokapi ) It's a common frustration in our social interactions with Japanese because the culture practices " indirect approach " to communication

( Naoko ) 日本人の世界は「察し」の文化だからね.たしかに他の国の人たちから見れば大変かも.

* 察し 【さっし】 (n) consideration; guess; conjecture; judgment; judgement;

Dutch Baka
Nov 28, 2007, 17:17
( Naoko ) 日本人の世界は「察し」の文化だからね.たしかに他の 曹フ人たちから見れば大変かも.


uuuh... how about a translation?

pipokun
Nov 28, 2007, 19:33
it seems social interaction in Japan is always based on in-group / out-group.
Sorry for my ignorance, but I cannot imange what sort of interaction would be besides the in/out.
Enlighten me, please.

IELTS 6.5/5.5 is required to work in the UK.
6.1 Work Permit and Highly Skilled Migrants
6.1.6 What English language qualifications do you hold?
If English is your first language please state this. Otherwise please provide full details of any English language qualifications you hold e.g. IELTS or TOEFL Please provide supporting documentary evidence
http://www.vfs-uk-jp.com/japan/images/VAF2-GUIDANCE-NOTES.pdf
Is this the institutionalised xenophobia?

bakaKanadajin
Nov 28, 2007, 22:50
I wonder how many in the US and Canada feel their culture has aspects whose long-standing purity and pedigree needs to be protected and preserved due to an influx of foreign presence? I could definitely see this in say, Great Britain, but not on the North American continent.

The reason why in/out group mentality is so strong in the average Japanese person (or even Chinese, a much older culture) is something we may never understand IMHO.

MadamePapillon
Nov 29, 2007, 12:26
Sorry for my ignorance, but I cannot imange what sort of interaction would be besides the in/out.
Enlighten me, please.

Well, I'll just use my college as an example. We have people from all over the world and all sorts of different cultures here and in all the time I've been there (almost 2 years) there has not been a single time I can think of when anybody has been excluded simply because they weren't "one of us".

People from Canada, America, Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, China ect, we all go to the same school and talk and hang out, there isn't and "us and them" because we're all in the same boat. Just trying to survive college XD

I think you just have to be willing to put aside the differences and just look at people for people. If all you see is how different someone is you'll never see how alike you really are.

If you get what I mean :relief:

pipokun
Nov 30, 2007, 21:47
It is great that Canadian schools conduct strong anti-bullying programs after the suicide of a girl. But why do the kids in the same boat bully other passengers?
And your case is just the "us" case as long as you go to the same school.

bakaKanadajin I wonder how many in the US and Canada feel their culture has aspects whose long-standing purity and pedigree needs to be protected and preserved due to an influx of foreign presence? I could definitely see this in say, Great Britain, but not on the North American continent.
What about the recent hate crime starting from a school yard fight in the US?
And the gated community is the good example in the North America.
Or the white flight is also the one.

You may say we Canadians are diffrent from Americans, though...

MadamePapillon
Dec 1, 2007, 02:45
It is great that Canadian schools conduct strong anti-bullying programs after the suicide of a girl. But why do the kids in the same boat bully other passengers?
And your case is just the "us" case as long as you go to the same school.

You misunderstand.

The point I was trying to make is that in most cases there isn't an issue if somebody from another culture or race wants to be a part of the group. You wont see many people excluding somebody simply because they are from a different country.

It happens...but there's not a widespread clan mentality among most Canadians. Us and Them. People still form groups and bully or exclude people, but that's a whole other issue.

tokapi
Dec 1, 2007, 14:54
* 日本人の世界は「察し」の文化だからね :?

( tokapi ) Ok .. Naokoさん,would you please explain it & provide an example of what 日本は察しの文化 really means.

( Naoko ) I said," Between Japanese,we tend to avoid saying our real opinion directly. If I think i disagree with your opinion, I'd say at first, I suppose so but.... It is a little different intonation. When we heard this, we guess you might think disagree with my opinion.".察しmeans "reading people, reading their feelings",another word is "perceive". :note:

We Japanese do distinguish these opposite thoughts unconsciously, when or who we talk to ! 本音 ( Honne ), or true thoughts are expressed privately, and 建前 ( Tatemae ), or the social opinions are expressed in public to keep one's face and social acceptance.Japanese people tend to express ( 本音 ) Honne only to their intimate friends or immediate family.:note:

She said that with Japanese friends, at the beginning, everyone is nice. They won't show their true feelings easily and will compliment my level of Japanese (which is horrible!) so that I won't feel discouraged. But this is just the outside face. She said that once they feel comfortable in our friendship (which typically takes longer for the feelings on their side to develop versus my side) only then will they let me know their real opinions on things. Only then will they tell me of their concerns for me or if something I've done has unwittingly offended them. She used the analogy that a Japanese person was like an onion, there were different layers that they felt comfortable showing people depending on their relationship. :note:

we're not necessarily used to the idea of a public face versus a private face. The personality that I show the world is the person that I am at all times.


********************* :note::note::note: ************************

pipokun
Dec 1, 2007, 18:49
You misunderstand.
The point I was trying to make is that in most cases there isn't an issue if somebody from another culture or race wants to be a part of the group. You wont see many people excluding somebody simply because they are from a different country.
It happens...but there's not a widespread clan mentality among most Canadians. Us and Them. People still form groups and bully or exclude people, but that's a whole other issue.

So what about the Taiko666's case? He made friends with others, maybe Japanese, in Japan. Probably some UK loving fundamentalists are one of them, but I just suppose frineds are just frineds.
Just wondering how Taiko666 would react to the out-group in his country or Japan.
If he would treat them in the same attitude as his/her friends, he should start his own religion. Talking about the weather with strangers may be a bit irrelevant here.

tokapi
Dec 1, 2007, 19:01
but there's not a widespread clan mentality among most Canadians. Us and Them.



村八分 Mura-Hachibu ( Ostracism )


村八分は、江戸時代から行われている習慣です。村の秩序を乱した人は、制裁として、村のみんなから交際を断 たれます。もう、同じグループの一員として受け入れてもらえないのです。でもこれは、文字通り、八分・・8 0%なのです。  

ではでは、残りの20%は何を意味するでしょう?それは、火事とお葬式です。仲間外れにしても,本当にその 人が困っている時には助けるのです。日本人はどんな時も人の和が大切だと信じています。

私は、完全にその人を追放したりしない、この言葉をつくった日本人の感性が気に入っています。

Mura-Hachibu is a custom held from the Edo era.Mura ( 村 ) means village and Hachibu means 80% ( 八分 ).It means that as for the person who disturbed order of a village, the person is quitted association by everyone as sanctions…They refuse to accept the person as a member of the group.However it doesn't mean breaking off completely.…It's 80% !

Then what do you think what 20% means ? It means a fire and a funeral.When the person was really troubled, they help the person.Japanese believe that a harmonious group spirit is very important anytime.

I like the Japanese sensitivity that does not completely expel the person

kireikoori
Dec 1, 2007, 21:22
I take back my earlier words now -__- It's now just become a discussion of "in" and "out" culture again. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I'm out.

Mars Man
Dec 1, 2007, 23:04
If there are any further comments on the cultural differences between subjects like relations between married couples, and the sexual activities of young people, I would like to see those. If there are not, I would suggest the present line of discussion be dropped since it's too far off topic; PLEASE !

Taiko666
Dec 4, 2007, 10:27
So what about the Taiko666's case? He made friends with others, maybe Japanese, in Japan. Probably some UK loving fundamentalists are one of them, but I just suppose frineds are just frineds.


(with apologies to Mars Man, again (>_<) )

The fact that you imply that the only Japanese who could possibly be in my in-group are Anglophiles is both insulting and a vivid insight into your mindset (which I assume is a common mindset in Japan.)

The issue of whether in-group / out-group mentality is peculiar to Japan is much more difficult. Obviously one treats strangers differently from close friends, but that doesn't adequately describe the Japanese way. But again, I think your comment above helps... you seem to think that me, as a foreigner, couldn't possibly become part of a Japanese in-group. That's maybe the difference... in Japan the 'rules' and attitudes are rigid, and require huge effort to overcome. In other countries, in/out group stuff is much less important, more fluid, and non-exclusionary.

Chi65
Dec 4, 2007, 12:13
What made me wonder in Japan, was their very immediate welcome and offer to wash and what not my back, lending me their cosmetical "instruments" to try out and give me every warmth like for an old friend. . .in public baths!
When there three times, some already had tears in their eyes for me saying good bye then, and were waiting for me on the way to walk with me to the bath.
I know no country, that so immediately made me feel welcome and at home. And thats only one example. A part is clearly curiosity, but a certain border, as we know it here, was as quickly overrun. I had no chance to escape this, but maybe I signalised that they can do it with me.
Thus, also amongst artists, I made the most wonderfull experiences. Also, when a friend of this one, then I was as much a friend of them etc.(and I am not a child of sadness).
This in/out business remained a legend for me thus, even outside my artist circles. I was "adopted" many times and quickly included in everyday life or excursions etc. But I never started, I was simply there and waited, and here they come again, and always the right ones and often enough solid friendships for years!
I could still write a book about it, also how they tore down "barriers", that was often enough very interesting.
But when I realy needed a rest, I got it too, without words. Deep respect for their fine feelings!
Not to mention they are the best guests over here, that I ever had!

I LOVE Japan for this!(and miss it)

Over and over again, as a woman.